[RULE] Spreadsheet/DB of the SW, part 2

[Eugene Wong]

>From: "M. Fioretti" <m.fioretti at inwind.it>
<snip>
>5) We talked about something related to this at the beginning of the
>    project: let's all read again
>	http://www.rule-project.org/en/sw/app_db.php
>    and see if and how it fits or can be merged with the current
>    subject

1 of my concerns with that web page is that it may take a lot of 
calculations each time someone queries the database. Another thing to 
consider is the swap partition. If I have 128MB of swap partition, & only 4 
MB RAM, then I should be able to run almost any application--even 
StarOffice. However most people shouldn't need that. I'm just trying to say 
that the possibilities are endless, because maybe they don't have enough 
RAM, but they have enough swap partition, but they may end up not having 
enough disk space. I am only speculating. Maybe someone can comment.

>6) When I said scripts I meant "a series of wget/rpm commands,
>    automatically generated on the website thanks to the SW database/
>    spreadsheet": such commands are saved into a local file, and used
>    when needed (even on a local CDROM, for example)

I'm not sure that I understand. I'll try to comment on this, & if I 
misunderstand, then would you be able to rephrase?

I am trying to use wget right now with these scripts. Michael's Slinky seems 
to make use of the rpm command, quite efficiently. I geuss that I am trying 
to say that database server doesn't need to create the commands. The server 
only needs to create the file list, which makes the file that contains the 
list much smaller, & reuses the code of the installer. Perhaps I 
misunderstand you? With a bash script, you can do something like, 
"./install_script base_list my_file_list", & then have it install the base 
rpms 1st, then the files of your choice.

>7) Why should this script/spreadsheet thingy happen just during the
>install, or be limited by busybox/floppy space constraints? In many
>cases, I want to know and tune the possible package list (days?)
>*before* installation (maybe working on it ten minutes at a time in
>the office during lunch breaks, see URL above again), so that, when I
>actually start the install, I can walk away or take a nap.

I agree. I would like to see a script where the user can go browse through 
all of the rpms available, & choose as you describe.

>In the second place, the script using the db/spreadsheet can be run
>automatically *after* the install: you install the very base packages,
>then (automatically) reboot and run that script with full availability
>of wget, Perl, ssh, whatever. As long as it can be automated, and
>takes almost the same total time, what difference does it make?

I am very much in favour of rebooting. This type of a philosophy allows us 
to upgrade much more easily, without having to re-enter information. Right 
now, I am trying to create some install scripts that can be used long after 
the install.

I would like to go back to discussing the database.

Perhaps what I am really looking for is a general menu of functionality, not 
of implementation. When I go into a restaurant, I can choose many dishes 
according to my needs, & desires. I don't have a very large voice on how 
they are to cook it in the kitchen. Nor do I have a part in deciding where 
they buy their supplies from. For our installers, I'd like to see us move a 
bit more towards:

   Which would you like to install?
   1 console workstation [word processing, spreadsheet, email, www, etc.] 
175 MB
   2 TWIN workstation [much like XFree86, but text based; can work with X] 
200 MB
   3 XFree86 workstation [graphical workstation] 400 MB
   4 print server [using CUPS] 150 MB
   5 Apache server ### MB
   6 email server ### MB
   7 firewall ### MB
   Enter the number of your choice: _

It doesn't have to be like that. It only is a suggestion, & the information 
that I provided above is just made up. Basically, what I am trying to 
demonstrate is that people won't have to worry about whether or not we use 
links, or whether we use qmail or sendmail. As long as it works with a 
minimal amount of configuration, then they should be happy. Another thing 
that we can add to the menu, is the ability to uninstall. When the average 
Red Hat user runs "setup", they are given a menu of things that they can 
configure. They can choose to start/stop services on the next reboot. In the 
same way, it may be useful for the user to be able to uninstall large 
package groups, install something else, then go back again, when they are 
done. They may be so pressed for space, that they would like to uninstall 
the XFree86 desktop, then install options 2, 4-6. When they no longer need 
those servers, they can uninstall them & go back to XFree86.

In order for it to work, I think that we must have specific standards of 
functionality & a maximum resource requirements. In other words, graphical 
web browsers must have cookie support & render according to standards. If we 
can't have those things, then we will list the next "best" option. I think 
that the maximum resoure requirements is important, because it helps us make 
a logical cut off point for the bloated-compliant package & the 
uncompliant-minimalist package.

I think that any option should never take up more than 450 MB of hard disk & 
8 MB RAM. I say this because partly because this fits the profile of my 386 
& 486 computers, and also because I am assuming that many computers fit this 
profile or better. In other words, 450 MB & 8 MB work for the most people. 
Please correct me if I am wrong. Just because 450 MB & 8 MB are the maximum, 
it doesn't mean that we have to use it up. It just helps us to decide. If 
StarOffice becomes so bloated that it uses up 500 MB, then we would have to 
avoid it even though it might be standards compliant, in favour of something 
that just gets the job done.

Other minimalist configurations could be dealt with with other RULE 
installers.

I think that we should continue to use the database, but to not make that a 
priority for development.

I'm just thinking out loud, so there is still lots of room for discussion. 
My numbers & ideas are quite arbitrary. Please suggest numbers that you 
would prefer.


Sincerely, and with thanks,
Eugene T.S. Wong

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